Forget Body Ideals and Find Body Joy!

FORGET SOCIETY'S BODY STANDARDS AND FIND BODY JOY!

FIERCE AND CURVY EMPIRE | @fierceandcurvyempire

At a certain point, we just have to stop giving a crap about other people's opinions (seriously, who cares?) and forget about trying to fit into society's beauty standards for the sake of finding our own body joy! Only then can we start to confidently take up space and be the best version of ourselves...the version that's changing the freaking world!

Queen K Says...

"Taking up space is not giving a damn what anyone else is thinking, to fully experience the moment and not have anything else take you away from that."

How much juiciness can we fit into one podcast episode? You're about to find out! I talked with the Queens of Fierce and Curvy Empire, founder Queen K and her crew Queen D and Queen C, and we dove into what it looks like when we buy into society's body ideals and thin beauty standards and why we have to STOP GIVING A CRAP about all of that and discover our own body joy!

Some of the highlights of our convo include, 

• Why we need to stop waiting to lose weight to feel worthy
• Exploring dance in a plus-size body as a journey, not a destination
• What happens when we move for joy, not maximum calorie burn
• Finding body joy when life throws you a curve ball
• The glorious concept of Fat Vanity?
• No longer internalizing body shame that others carry and project onto us
• Why fat representation matters for younger generations
• The frustration of existing in a society that doesn't want to see fat people living their best lives
• When someone tells a fat person they're so brave ... and why sometimes that feels awesome and other times totally sucks!

 All Resources We Talked About

• FACE's Virtual Empire
• FACE's Coffee & Curves Podcast

Meet the Queens of FACE!

Queen K created FACE, an all-inclusive full-figured dance company that provides a safe and strong community, and believes that everyone has the right to move their bodies and take up space. Queen K is joined by Queen D and Queen C to create a safe and encouraging community to bring out the fierce queen within YOU! This no judgement zone is where we will build each other up, straighten each other’s crowns, and show the world that we are not defined by our size. 

Connect with the Queens

• TikTok
• Instagram
• Facebook
• Website

******************************************************
About Fantastical Fatty

Lindsay Johnson, aka Fantastical Fatty, is a fat joy activist, fat liberationist, and fat fitness lover. They believe fat people deserve to love their fat bodies and take up space!

👉 Website
👉 TikTok
👉 Instagram

Stay Fat & Fantastic,
Lindsay 😘

Transcript

FACE - Stop Giving a Crap about Society's Body Standards or Live Your Fat Joy Life!

[00:00:00] When we liberate ourselves, we liberate others because other people are seeing that modeled. Other people are going well. If they can do it, why can't I do it? Representation matters.

[00:00:10] Representation matters. Absolutely. Like if you don't see fat people dancing, you don't see them swimming, you don't see them out walking. Well, if no one else like me isn't doing it, that means that I'm not supposed to do it. Hell no. You're supposed to do it. Go out and do it. If you don't see people who look like you doing it, then start it.

[00:00:31] Be the version you wanna see in the world. Be the change you wanna see in the world, be the change, and plus, It's gonna sound corny. We're doing it for the children. ? Yes. I mean for the generations, like younger than us for sure. Because I mean, we all know when we were younger we didn't have the representation that we wanted and that we deserve to have.

[00:00:53] Welcome to the Fantastical Fatty Podcast, where we celebrate fat baddies challenging fat [00:01:00] stereotypes, smashing anti-fat narratives, and changing the freaking world for fatties like you and me. I'm your host, Lindsay Johnson, a k a Fantastical Fatty. I'm a fat joy activist, fat liberationist, and fat fitness lover.

[00:01:13] I'm here to remind you that you're allowed to love every inch of your fat body, take up space and live your best fat baddie life.

[00:01:20] No matter where you are at on your journey to fat liberation and fat joy,

[00:01:24] this podcast is gonna amp you up. You're gonna get to hear from some truly fantastical fatties. Whether they themselves are in the space of fat liberation or fat activism, or they're just living badass lives in a bigger body.

[00:01:39] Without further ado let's meet today's guest.

[00:01:41] Oh, friends fantastical fatties. I am so freaking excited for the podcast you're about to listen to. We have the three queens with us, queen C, queen D, and Queen K, who run Fierce and Curvy Empire. It's an [00:02:00] all-inclusive, full figure dance company that provides a safe and strong community for women to feel empowered to be the powerful queens that they are.

[00:02:09] I wanna give you a little bit more of a background before I tell you what we talked about. So, Fierce and curvy Empire, a k a. Face is an all-inclusive, full figure dance company that provides a safe and strong community that focuses on various forms of dance, such as burlesque, hip hop, and street jazz. Allowing all members to feel encouraged, empowered, and supported to be the powerhouse queens that they are.

[00:02:33] With face, you can take the stage with your fellow Curvt Queens and rock the amazing body that you have. They have a no judgment zone where y'all build each other up, straighten each other's crowns, and show the world that you are not defined by your size. Queen K created FACE at the beginning of 2020 and believes that everyone has the right to move their bodies and take up [00:03:00] space, and wanted to create a safe and encouraging community to bring out the fierce queen within.

[00:03:05] Their messages. Simple. We should empower and cheer each other on as we shake our sexy curves and build our empire of strong powerhouse queens. Now whole having three people on is awesome because we got three different perspectives on some really important questions and conversations we wanna be having around fat, liberation, joyful movement, and most importantly, taking up space.

[00:03:30] So without further ado, let's get into this rock and podcast. I hope you enjoy listening as much as I enjoyed hanging out with these three amazing, amazing women. Let's get into it.

[00:03:43] The Queens of Face are here with us today. Welcome to the podcast. Thank you so much for having us. I am so excited you guys are here.

[00:03:53] First of all, can we get a quick roundup, the three queens who are you?

[00:03:58] Tell us like who you [00:04:00] are and your reason for existing. That's a question. . I am Queen K of the Fierce and Curvy Empire. I am the creator of, uh, AKA face, and I guess I exist because I'm worthy and I get to take up space. I get to take up as much as I want, and I want the rest of the world to have that experience as.

[00:04:28] I love that. I love that. And I'm like, I'm looking at the other two queens and are you guys like, why didn't you take that answer? Now what are we gonna say,

[00:04:39] I mean, I was just gonna try to be funny and say that I exist cuz my parents did it one time. But, uh, , I mean I also exist cuz I just completely contain all of this in just one tiny being. You know, like I gotta be out. Um, I'm also Queen D hi, um, . I'm here all week. Um, I also [00:05:00] just love being Queen D because I just wanna be a part of a safe space for all shapes and sizes.

[00:05:05] Yeah. And, uh, growing up in the dance industry, I don't think there was enough of a safe space for people of all shapes and sizes. Yes. Um, and I, I definitely firsthand experienced what it's like to be like the tall and curvy one who's very much. AK the sore thumb even though I wasn't. Um, and so that's why I think face needs to exist and why I'm super proud to be Queen D

[00:05:26] yes. And I'm already writing down notes right now cause there's two things I wanna jump into on what you just said. We're gonna get into it. Queen C, let's hear it. Um, yeah, so these guys are like so prophetic and like, so great. Um, so yes, I'm Queen C and why do I exist? I exist to help people understand their worth and I've been actually thinking about this a [00:06:00] lot. I've been doing a lot of like introspection lately and, and you know, what are the things that I love doing and I love being, and yes, helping people understand their worth and helping people just kind of tear off the layers and layers of societal expectation and just be who they are.

[00:06:23] Yes, yes. All the snaps. Love it. . That was very prophetic. Yes. Thank you, . I love that. Well, and I think that is, you know, it's so funny. So like I was doing my, my TikTok live my workout this morning. And trying to, trying to succinctly talk about diet, culture and fat phobia and this thing about, oh, just go on a diet.

[00:06:48] You're fatty. You know what I mean? And being like, do you not think that's how we all got here? Like that's what we've been doing, some of us our whole lives. But my point [00:07:00] is that I'm trying to talk about these things and, and it's like there's so many layers. So many layers to all the things that we're talking about.

[00:07:10] You know, queen D you were talking about like being the sore thumb because you're taller and you're bigger, and it it, there's this assumption that if you're in a bigger body, you're not as good at dance or sports, which I wanna dive into. Right? Or there's even the like, oh, you know, the folks who I've lost weight, so I've made.

[00:07:30] You know what I mean? And go . Okay. Let's hear. Queen K what would that eye roll? Just the fact of people feel like they need to hit a certain size or they need to hit the societal expectation that until I look like a, then I'm not allowed to feel worthy that I need to. Hit all of these particular marks. I need to check off all these boxes, and until I get to that point, I'm not worthy.

[00:07:56] I don't get to take up space. I don't deserve the things like, no, [00:08:00] no, no. You absolutely deserve that all the time, and you should be able to take up space all of the time. It's just, it's sad when you hear it and just having to confront that energy all the time. But that, that's one of the reasons why we created the we Queen of Face is because we wanted to create a world that's, it doesn't exist yet, so you know what?

[00:08:22] We're gonna fix it. Yeah. I mean, I was just talking about this with somebody else, like, what do you, what do you do when you're, you have a marginalized identity or in a, in a marginalized body and the not, it doesn't exist. The thing that you need doesn't exist. We create. Yeah. Mm-hmm. . So let's dive into Fierce and Curvy Empire because it is significant what you guys are doing.

[00:08:43] First of all, all three of you are amazing dancers. Like I am addicted to your videos. . Thank you. Addicted. When they're on, I'm like, , so, so let's talk about that because you know, you are [00:09:00] helping to show a lot of people. How, first of all, amazing their bodies are, what they're capable of. I can imagine the level of confidence and self-assuredness and, and even just their sense of body image.

[00:09:13] What is the impact that you're seeing have happen through your dancers that is just giving you the will to live? ? Um, I think it's like the coolest part is knowing. Everyone that's in our classes are on a journey. Yeah. So it's never about like the destination, like our classes are not about getting from A to B.

[00:09:34] It's not about like once I'm here, this is my, this is where I am, I'm amazing. It's, it's, you're always continuously amazing cuz it's about the journey. Yeah. And it's been really cool to kind of see. The steps in everybody's journey because everybody's in a different place, so you're constantly celebrating different levels of achievements for everybody all the time.

[00:09:53] Um, so it's never boring, which is great, um, for someone who wants to be creative and is always needing that, um, [00:10:00] sort of validation I guess. But, um, Yeah, I think it's, it's the variety in seeing where everybody is so different. Like none of our students are the same. Everybody's in a different path. It comes from a different background, has different life experience.

[00:10:13] Um, and that to me is my favorite part is getting to see like everybody, it's just a such a different place and it's just like this constant living thing, which is awesome. A lot of people in bigger bodies have always had the before and after mindset, the A to B mindset, do you find that that has been a relief, a breath of fresh air for folks that come to your classes that realize that they don't have to be a before and after? I, I think so. I think there's definitely still people out there who are in that mindset because we definitely have students that talk about diet culture or dealing with those kinds of things where they're still trying to break away from that stigma.

[00:10:55] And it's been a learning curve for us to try to navigate, okay, how do we talk about this without [00:11:00] a flat out insulting them and being like, no, we don't talk about that here. Because it can come off as kind of harsh, obviously, like we're in a different place. So like we can say that confidently, but that might really hurt them.

[00:11:10] It's not a black and white thing, like it's such a gray area thing, right? So like it's a breath of fresh air. But there's also like that fine line of realizing where everybody is in the past too. Yeah. It's wanting to be inclusive, not wanting to be dismissive, holding space where people are at because we all were there.

[00:11:26] Hundred percent. We all remember the hell of that, of being there. Right. Queen K what were you gonna. Um, for me, I was gonna say, there's a couple of things that I absolutely love. I love the aha moments that our students have in class where you come in and it's like your very first one. It can be absolutely terrifying, especially if you've never taken a dance class before.

[00:11:46] If you're already feeling like you're not allowed to, to take up space. You come in and you see these people who are extremely apologetic, like, oh, I'm sorry if I'm, I'm too close, or I'm taking up too much room. But then you see the, the ahas. , I'm [00:12:00] worthy. Mm-hmm. , I get to be here. I am completely okay the way I am, and I get to just be in this moment and enjoy and have fun with it.

[00:12:08] Mm-hmm. and just to see that energy change. And the second thing that I love from that is it, wait, no, hang on. Wait, wait, wait. You have to hold that second point. I gotta get in there. I got a question. Okay, I, I lost my question. Let me get my question back. It had to do with what you just said about enjoying being in the moment, With, uh, coming into our class, there's, there's a lot of mental gymnastics hurdles that you have to jump over.

[00:12:35] You have to be comfortable with coming into a brand new space. Mm-hmm. , you have to be comfortable with being around people that you might not know very well. Some people come to our class with friends, some people don't, and you have to come in with knowing the fact of like, well, I, I've never danced before.

[00:12:51] Like, what is my body going to do? There's some people's, like, your body just feels very foreign to you. Yeah. And that you don't know what you, and you have those [00:13:00] limitations already set up. So to actually be able to move past that and knowing that you are absolutely in a safe space because you're going to have the queens with you.

[00:13:09] And not only that, because of this amazing community and environment that we're building, everyone in that room is either going through that same experience or they've gone through that. So we're all, we're all pulling each other up, we're all cheering each other and empowering each other. So that's what that aha moment is.

[00:13:24] I'm safe here. Yeah. And that I can just be free. And I can be me. I love that. And I wanna ask one more follow up question. Can you hold that second point a little bit longer? Don't forget it because I want to hear it. Okay, because I want, because I, I encounter the same thing, right? Like, now I myself am not a trainer, but I do host the joyful movement, right?

[00:13:45] Power hours, and I get people on there who, yeah, they don't trust their body, right? They, they are starting from scratch. They, they have a perception of what it means to be fit or athletic or move their bodies. And we're trying to, like, usually it's not an a positive one, [00:14:00] right? What advice would you have to anybody who is really stuck in their heads and their fears around movement and trusting their body as they're in embarking on some form of joyful movement?

[00:14:14] a big one would be, just to remind them that again, this is a safe space and we are with you the entire way. Yeah. And we're not going to tell you to not listen to your body. You've been with it this entire time, and it's taking care of you this far. So if it's telling you that something you're doing is uncomfortable or you're not ready for it, yeah, that is completely okay.

[00:14:35] We do moves in our class. , you know, we shimmy down to the floor, we do whatever, and just if you go to move your body, it's like, I'm not ready. I'm not, I'm not ready to, to love on my micro curves and move my hands, and that way it's like, that's okay. Mm-hmm. . Yeah. We have no problems doing modifications because everyone is at a different point in their journey, and we're going to tailor it to you.

[00:14:57] It's not just that I have to fit into this [00:15:00] puzzle that everyone's around me, they're already at this place. No, no, no. We are all having conversations this whole time. We're listening to each other, and because you always have more than one queen in the room with you at a time, we can have those continuous conversations.

[00:15:15] So even if you're in the, you're stuck in your head and you're like, oh, I'm just taking up space. I just gotta be quiet and I gotta not say anything. It's like, no, no, no. We are there for you. And again, because we had that amazing c. , you're not gonna get just us. You're gonna get our absolutely fantastic students as well.

[00:15:29] Yeah. Who are also gonna be there for you. Mm-hmm. . Yeah. And that's what I'm hearing, right? So for folks that aren't able to be at Fierce and Curvy Empire, like anybody that's doing anything in terms of saying, Hey, I want to move my body more, I want to take up space and I want to feel good. It's like what I heard you say.

[00:15:48] Advocate for yourself. If you're not there yet, don't feel like you've gotta push yourself or fit in. Ask for what you need back off if it's a little too outta your comfort zone, right? Find people who are going to listen to you like the the leaders are [00:16:00] or, or whatever, are going to listen to you. They're going to respect you.

[00:16:02] They're going to create that safe space. Find that community of people who are going through similar journeys, who are going to get it right. And I feel like this just goes for everything in life, but especially for folks that are wanting to get back into movement. Right. All right. Point number two. Do you still have it

[00:16:19] I do. I do. Here we go, . So not only do you have that aha moment, but it's also the fact that they take it out of the classroom as well. So we get messages all the time and people following up with us. It's like I was in the grocery store and my, the song came on and it just, it just happened. It just happened.

[00:16:38] I was in church and I'm like, oh, when things are happening. That's great. Mm-hmm. . It's not just stopping there. Yeah. And although we are an amazing dance class experience, it's not just a dance class. Yeah. It's a, it is a whole experience in itself and we're so happy to see that you're able to take that away from the classroom and to continue that amazing feeling wherever you are.[00:17:00] 

[00:17:00] Yes. Yes. Oh my God, yes. And it's, I'm picturing the like immediately when you said grocery shopping, I was picturing somebody like dropping a can of soup on the floor. And do you remember from Legally Blonde the like snap flick?

[00:17:18] Yep. That's not a, that's not a regular thing. You guys don't just do that all the time. Cause Is that just me? Yes, that's just me. Ok. No, I, no, it's only you That doesn't . Oh yeah. Thank you, . Oh my God. All right, Quincy, let's hear it. Let's hear it. Yeah. All right. So I would say, you know, my favorite thing is, um, seeing the, the people in our class, they are doing this for.

[00:17:46] And that is very, very clear, right? Yeah. Um, you know, so for example, I'm, you know, 40 year old mom of two. Yeah. And I see so many people in my same circumstance. [00:18:00] Not taking time for themselves and not, you know, thinking, you know, this is my life now. This is what I do. You know, there are these pressures from everywhere else saying this is who I have to be now.

[00:18:11] And we give people a little sliver of, I can be myself, I can be sensual, I can take up space, I can do the things that I wanna do. This is for me, this is an hour and a half. This is just for me. And you know, this lovely community of people that I have met. Yeah. And that absolutely makes my heart sing. Like this is okay.

[00:18:36] I'm gonna keep saying, this is what I was talking about today on TikTok. Like literally I was like this. Yes. Moving your body, being in community, like this is a time for you and I, again, we talked about that. Sees themselves as a before and after, and oftentimes movement is looked at, how can I maximize my calorie burn?

[00:18:57] Right? Like, how can, yeah. [00:19:00] deep breaths, but it's, yes. Go. What were you gonna say? I can't control the facial expressions if something is said. It's gonna come out , bring them on, bring them on. Just the, the whole, like, have you tried the newest diet? I've coming in, it's like I've lost 50 pounds. Like, oh, you look so great.

[00:19:20] You've lost so much weight. And it's like, don't, don't worry. You're, you're not fat, you're beautiful. It's like, no, no. That's not how that works. Mm-hmm. No, Deborah, we can be both. Okay. Yep. Come. Yep. We love all the Deborahs. We love, we love the Deborahs, but we love the Deborahs. But they got some work. They got some work, right.

[00:19:41] But that's, yeah, like it's this, like I, I, I'm always trying to get folks to remove weight loss. From the Equa equation of movement, because we all know, actually we don't all know, people who are doing the work are starting to learn that, [00:20:00] uh, exercise movement fitness does not lead to weight loss. So can we please stop doing movements that are torture because it burns more calorie.

[00:20:11] Can we be with ourselves in this moment, present in our bodies and moving them in a way that is sexy if you want. Right? That leaves you feeling strong, leaves you feeling confident, leaves you laughing. Okay, one more thing and then I'm gonna throw back to you. Today we were doing, so I always do airplanes.

[00:20:30] Not always. I often do airplanes in my joyful movement, power hours. Um, I hate them. They're the worst. I hate them so much, but I am laughing. every time by the end of them. Right? And it's that modeling of like, like they're so effective, which I love, but even though I hate them. I was talking today about how it's such an analogy for life.

[00:20:53] If you fall out of it, can you get back in? Can you laugh at yourself? Have graced yourself be be finding the fun in [00:21:00] this versus cursing at myself for not being able to balance, or like even the focus you need to balance versus thinking about the my to-do list will immediately make me fall. So it's such a great analogy for like where we're at in our relationship with ourselves.

[00:21:15] So, you know, when you think. Again, of course at, at the, at this dance studio. But even just in all types of movement, what happens when we remove optimal calorie burn and then focus on joy, focus on play? What does that look like for you? Like when, when did that shift start happening for you?

[00:21:39] Okay, I'll go. Okay. Um, so for me, like it, it was a, it was a fairly recent shift to be honest. Yeah. Um, , you know, I, uh, so we're, you know, we are in beautiful Calgary, Alberta. We have [00:22:00] beautiful mountains, not too far away. And so I started spending a lot of time outside and started hiking and that was kind of my like, soul time, right?

[00:22:10] Like, and, and I started to realize that, you know, getting up to the top of a mountain was joyful for me, you know? And then I joined, I joined Fierce and Curvy Empire, and I was like, oh, there's, there's that inner child that has been dying to break free and have some. and so, you know, it's, it's, I think it's one of those things where you just have to play until you find what you love.

[00:22:37] Like yeah, go out and play, like go get dirty in the muck and come to a dance class and go for a nice long walk and, you know, do whatever makes. Find what makes you happy. Yeah. Right? Mm-hmm. , I love that. Um, I, I feel like, well, I grew up in the mountains, so like, definitely like similar. I pick up on that a lot.

[00:22:59] But I think like my [00:23:00] big moment, um, was during Covid. I had like a lot. I'm not gonna get into it, but there was a lot of things that happened to me pre covid. And then during Covid I lost my job. And it was a job where like, it wasn't, it was just a serving job. Like it wasn't anything fancy, but, um, my, I had attached self worth to like how I am at work.

[00:23:20] So like if I dedicated a lot of my time and self to a job, I consider that to be of supreme value to me. And when I lost my job, it like completely flipped me on my. And I was unemployed for a year or whatever cuz restaurants were closed. And, um, it completely changed my like perceptive of what, how I value myself and like, you know, your work ethic and all this kind of stuff.

[00:23:43] And then I had discovered Fierce and Curvy Empire in January of 2020, so just before pandemic. Um, and I had been dancing and then in the summer of 20. Queen K asked me to have a drink and was like, Hey, do you wanna be Queen D? And I was like, excuse me, . Yes, I [00:24:00] do. Um, so it really like, it was like the beginning of the shift, but it really was like me having to completely be flipped on my head self worth wise and like really reevaluate.

[00:24:10] Like, yeah, is it really worthwhile for me to put that much value in a job that clearly didn't care about me? Um, and it really started to like force its way into other parts of my life of. Why am I forcing myself to run 5K and treadmill when I hate it? Or like, why am I forcing myself to go on a diet when I clearly love all these other foods that aren't bad for me, but society tells me they are, or all these other things.

[00:24:34] And it really just started this like avalanche of like, Reassessing a lot of different avenues in my life that were not bringing me joy to now getting to the point where I'm Queen D of Face and I get to help other people realize that. So it's been like this really like big rollercoaster, circular sort of moment for me,

[00:24:53] But that's, that's where. . That's where I'm at with that for sure. That was beautiful. Thanks. Right. I'm like,[00:25:00] 

[00:25:02] Well, and it, and it's right, like it's this, like, I love what you said about my worth and my identity was tied to my job and a place that literally didn't care about me. Right. And yeah. And this shift that you get now where someone is, now we've got Queen K going, let's. You need to, you need to come into our world where you, you, and not to say that you don't have an opportunity to make a difference and impact people in, in a customer service job or a serving job or whatever, like absolutely you do.

[00:25:30] Anytime you interact with a human, you do. Right. You know? But I think, again, when we think about. People in bigger bodies who are just, my God, or we beat up 24 7, right? And just having this opportunity to elevate and lift up and not only, not only be a part of that hot air balloon that lifts them up, but helping them see how fantastic they are and amazing.

[00:25:53] Oh yeah. Yeah. I definitely think there's been a huge shift in my life of focusing on like fat joy and fat [00:26:00] vanity. That's like what I'm really loving. Cuz you never get to see. You don't really see a lot of fat people be vain. And I know that sounds maybe tacky, but I wrote that down. I wanna go confident.

[00:26:10] Cause fat vanity is like, why not? Where the hell am I really? What is it? Literally, this is the first time I've heard the phrase fat vanity. Can you define that for people like me who were like, hang on, I need a moment. I think it's, it's like the a fat person's total acceptance of their beauty and their confidence and being unashamed to completely showcase it to the world.

[00:26:32] And a lot of people will say that it's van, it's vanity. I mean it is vanity, but I think at the end of the day, it's being your true self. It is being your confident, true self. Unashamed Unabashed. Just, here I am, accept me. Um, and I think that's really scary for a lot of society to take in because it's, we are constantly being shoved down our throats to shut up and sit at the back.

[00:26:54] Yes. And to be like, I'm here Fricking deal with it. That's, that's fat vane [00:27:00] for me. Can I tell you, I went to a holiday party last night and I wore a body. Hell yeah. And that is the first time I've ever worn one in, in a bigger body. And I, I bought it last year. I put it on, I chickened out . And so this year I was like, I feel.

[00:27:21] Fantastic. I feel so confident in my body. Good. I feel so comfortable in my body. Also, it was like a, it had like a turtleneck and it was a full sleeve, so I got to wear a sports with it that nobody would know. So I was really comfy. good. But it was just this like you. One of the things that helps me tuck my shirt into my pants and let my tummy out, right?

[00:27:49] Like let my, or even wear a belly shirt, let my skin show or wear a bo contrast, right? These, a big driver for me is sort of sticking a middle finger up [00:28:00] at people that have an issue. Like if you have an issue with that, I am no longer carrying the weight of shame that you are projecting from your own inner shame.

[00:28:09] Like I'm not. Exactly. Oh, cool. Quick go. What you got? What you got for us? I love that. I love that so much. Yep. I didn't even, I've never really thought about that. It's like, why? Why should I have to carry the shame that you carry around? I'm happy. Yeah. With how I am. If there's something that you need to deal with, then by all means, there are so many different resources and therapy that you can deal with.

[00:28:30] Yeah, but I'm not here for that. Yeah. Figure it out on your.  This is what we mean when we say, when we liberate ourselves, we liberate others because other people are seeing that modeled. Other people right are are going well. If they can do it, why can't I do it? Representation matters.

[00:28:47] Representation matters. Absolutely. Like if you don't see fat people dancing, you don't see them swimming, you don't see them out walking. Well, if no one else like me isn't doing it, that [00:29:00] means that I'm not supposed to do it. Hell no. You're supposed to do it. Go out and do it. If you don't see people who look like you doing it, then start it.

[00:29:07] Yeah. Be the, be the version you wanna see in the world. Be the change you wanna see in the world, be the change, and plus, It's gonna sound corny. We're doing it for the children. ? Yes. I mean for the generations, like younger than us for sure. Because I mean, we all know when we were younger we didn't have the representation that we wanted and that we deserve to have.

[00:29:32] Yeah. And so now we see, like that's one of the biggest comments that we get on like our tos. Like, oh my God, seeing somebody with my body type dancing. It's like, yeah, if you're like a young girl or human, that's just like, I'd never seen my body shape like that. Then it's, it makes a huge impact because that's might be the first time you've ever seen that.

[00:29:51] Yeah. And that is that this is, you know, So my, my thing has always been sports and athletics always, [00:30:00] but doesn't matter. Didn't see fat people. Never saw fat. People didn't even know that I could be, like, I could go to, to secondary, like college, university to play sports. I could be a professional sports player.

[00:30:12] You know, didn't even know that was a. Thing. Right? And then especially in a bigger body, didn't even know that was a thing. So let's talk about that for a second. Let's come back to the sore thumb analogy. We have that new animation that's coming out with the, with the ballet. You know what, with the, with the, the, the plus size ballerina.

[00:30:30] I don't know the name of it. Have you guys seen what I'm talking about? I can't, I can't remember. It's Pixar, though. It's gonna be, it's gonna be on Disney Plus. I can't remember the name of it off the top of my head. Yes, but representation. The assumption that if you're in a bigger body, you're not as good.

[00:30:44] Like, you know, Olympic athletes, , we see bigger size Olympic athletes crushing it. Like what? So like, you know, I don't even know what the question is here other than let's discuss this concept of [00:31:00] if you're in a bigger body, you're not as strong, you're not as fast, you're not as good. Stay home, you shameful thing.

[00:31:06] Like that's what we all feel. So what is that? And honestly, that statement has always confused me. It's like if you're in a bigger body and you take up space sort of thing, that society doesn't wanna see you. No. However, we expect to see you in the gym. We expect to see you out there dieting and eating a salad.

[00:31:23] It's like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Make up your mind. You either don't wanna see me or you want to see me. Scraping by and fighting to hit this perception of what you need me to be like. No, that's, that doesn't make sense whatsoever. So how about just screw all your little perceptions. I'm just gonna go out there and I'm gonna be me and I'm going to be in that moment for me.

[00:31:44] Yes. I'm gonna forget, we're gonna make fun of you for being at the gym and eating a salad. Mm-hmm. , don't forget that. Yeah. Yeah. So I did some, some high level sports and stuff like that when I was younger. And, you know, I, I was [00:32:00] not plus size, um, but my sport was wrestling. And it was interesting because in, in some ways it was very toxic because it is based on weight, right?

[00:32:09] Weight classes and things like that. Right? However, on the flip side of that, it meant that a person in a larger body had a home. Um, there were larger weight classes for women and men. Yeah. Um, and so, you know, it, it's, it's interesting like absolutely at those, you know, real elite levels of sports, you generally don't see those bodies, but there are some sports where.

[00:32:35] That acceptance is starting and like football, for example, another one. Yeah. Like, you know, you need the, the big people for the line and, and that kind of stuff. So there are snippets of it, but you know, when you think about like, you know, the Nike commercial or the, you know, whatever, you're, you're absolutely gonna see those, you know, smaller, smaller bodies.

[00:32:55] I don't even know where I'm going with this. But yeah, I'm [00:33:00] here for the journey of it. Well, cause I'm here for the journey of it. Really. This is the whole point. When it comes to that though, you have to be the right fat.

[00:33:07] So if you're not shaped in that way, then society still shames you and says that you're doing it wrong. So again, if you're not gonna hit these stupid societal marks, which you shouldn't even have to, don't give a damn about them. Yeah. Just be you. Just enjoy the space. Yeah. Don't worry about what other people think.

[00:33:24] They can deal with that on their own and just be amazing and take up the space because you're worthy. Yeah. Taking up space. I wanna, I wanna wrap us up on that point. Taking up space. I'm gonna ask, this is gonna be a two-parter question for each of you to answer. I want you to define for yourselves, what does taking up space mean and how can somebody begin to take up space?

[00:33:46] I'd love to hear from each, each of you. Okay. , um, taking up space is being able to be in the moment. Mm-hmm. , so we have so much going on with, with life and [00:34:00] politics and everything, and there's just so much going on our minds. All the time to be actually be able to be in that moment and just be there for you.

[00:34:10] That's what it is for, for me, for taking up space, not give a damn about what anyone else is thinking, to just to enjoy that, to fully experience that moment and not have anything else. Take away from that for you. Yes, my heart is like aching in a good way. my voice, Ising. Cause I think. Oh, don't cry, Lindsay.

[00:34:34] Don't cry. I think about how much of my life is, was wasted on not taking up space because of exactly what you just said. Um, and boy oh boy, I wish I could take that back. Okay, so how does, how does the, the younger us, how do people get started in, in taking up space in that way? Round yourself with people who are like you.

[00:34:56] Like don't have all these people who don't look like [00:35:00] you, who don't have the same experience as you. Like. Don't get me wrong, we should all have different people in our lives so that we can, we can build our lives and like know how to go from point A to B and so we can interact, communicate, and all that.

[00:35:13] But if you don't have anyone around you who looks like you, or even if on social media side, you're not even looking at people. Who look like you, then how you don't have a starting point. You're not starting from where you are. You're starting where someone else is. So just surround yourself with the support if you can, of people who look like you as well as social media.

[00:35:37] Scrub it. Just get rid of like all these like stick thin people who like, I can do this because I'm a size too. It's like, no, find someone who looks like you, size whatever, and who's like doing the things that you want to do that you love. Yeah, I love that. Thank you. Love it. Um, and that's me. That's a hard one to follow up after.

[00:35:59] Geez. [00:36:00] Say everything that I'm thinking. It's not a competition, but they almost made me cry. So, um, it's true. Um, for me, uh, taking up space is not giving a crap about what anybody thinks. Yeah. Um, and that's, it's easier said than done for sure. Um, which is why I say that it's a journey. It's not a destination.

[00:36:20] Um, but it's when you really start to step into your who you are and recognizing that like the only opinion that matters is yours. Um, I think that's like the number one thing. Like if you're happy, amazing, nothing else should matter. If you're sad. that sucks. Accept it. But maybe figure something out that's gonna bring you joy instead of, you know, allowing other people's opinions to ruin your life.

[00:36:44] Cuz other people's opinions don't matter. They're none of your business. That's their, their opinion. They, they're allowed to have it. Yours is the one that matters. Um, yeah, and just stop giving the crap . Like, I know that's easier stuff than done, but like, that's really truly how you take up space is [00:37:00] just saying like, I'm here.

[00:37:01] No, I don't care. Just stop caring. I know it sounds really like a loop, but. Well, it's that Dr. Seuss quote, right? Those that mind don't matter. Those who matter, don't matter. Matter. Don't mind. Exactly. So I think that's, and that's important. I love what Queen Kay said about like the social media approach, cuz I definitely agree with that and like what that looks like for taking that step.

[00:37:24] Um, I think it's a li it's like a step-by-step process I think for me. One of my things was like I ditched New Year's resolutions, and that was like a big, that was like a big, how do I start taking up space is like, I'm not gonna listen to that anymore. So instead, what I've been doing is I set an, an intention for the year.

[00:37:42] So for the first time I did it, I set like a be more patient with myself. So it has nothing to do with a physical thing. It has, it's just literally about like, okay, a baby step to me, allowing myself to become more of who I am last year was get out of my comfort zone. Um, and I think that's a big [00:38:00] one for taking up space and starting is just like it's going to be scary.

[00:38:04] Mm-hmm. . And I think you just have to accept that it's gonna be scary, but even taking small steps to be out of that comfort zone. Is really gonna start to shift you into a place where you're gonna start to feel like you deserve to take up that space. Yes. And can I just say the things that we are most scared of when we finally do it, it is so not scary.

[00:38:25] I know. And like you look back and you're like, why was I, why, why? And then, and it's, and it's liberating and you start to become confident in different ways than how you've been so used to being confident. . It completely shifts gears. I love that. Yeah. When I first was like, okay, so I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna preface this with, when we talk about the body positivity movement, for example, people will say, that doesn't mean you have to love your body, but can we get neutral?

[00:38:55] Right? Like, you know, can we get to this space? But I'm kind of like, [00:39:00] yeah, but also we can love our. Like you're allowed to love your fat body. And when I was like, okay, Lindsay, what would it look like? How would you dress? How would you be if you loved your fat body? And so the first time I tucked in a turtleneck to my jeans, meaning that I wasn't wearing a flattering, loose, flowing top to cover my tummy, right?

[00:39:24] I was like, okay, well you're gonna do this. You're gonna do this. And I was going to hang out with a friend for my. And I phoned him and I, or I think I messaged him or sent him a voice note and I was like, so I'm gonna be tucking my shirt into my jeans . And I'm very nervous and self-conscious, and I wanna say it now because otherwise the whole time I'm gonna be thinking about what you are thinking, , mm-hmm.

[00:39:46] And I won't be able to enjoy being with you. So I just wanna let you know this is gonna happen and I might be nervous for a little bit. And of course he's, I mean, he's awesome. He's one of my best friends. He's the best. And he's like, yeah, that's great. Thank you for telling me. Now I know what kind of space to hold for [00:40:00] you.

[00:40:00] You know, and had a great day and it was like, guess what? I didn't die. . Yeah. Like, and like did people look at my tummy? Sure they did. Because we're not used to seeing fat people not hide themselves behind clothes. Right, exactly. And so, but I know when I see their fat people showing off their full body,

[00:40:19] I'm just like, damn, they're so, I hate this. I'm, I'm gonna, you're gonna hate me. You're gonna hate me, but I'm gonna say it. They're so brave. , because I know, I'm sorry, but that's because, that's how I saw that. Cuz to me that was the scariest thing in the world. Right. And then I was like, I did it. And I was like, literally, that was awesome.

[00:40:38] That was fantastic. Right. You're not, you're not the only one who thinks that that's the thing is like that is. I don't think saying like if it's a fellow fat person saying you're so brave. I think it's a way of saying like there's a part of them that wishes that they could do that. Yeah. And there's a part of them thinking like, maybe one day I will get to that place.

[00:40:58] Yeah. So when it comes [00:41:00] from like, A straight size person or like a thinner person saying like, you're so brave. Then it's, I think like a patronizing thing. Yeah. But when it comes from a fellow fat person who says that and it's, it's trying to be endearing, I don't think it's necessarily like an insulting thing.

[00:41:13] I think it's more of like a. I really hope one day I can get to that place. And it's, which is why representation managers, which is why we do what we do, which is why we have to just keep showing up. So I don't necessarily, yes, it's kind of cringe and I appre I appreciate you prefacing that, but I do think that like there is a place of endearment in there.

[00:41:31] It's like, I see you, I get the courage that takes in our society. And you know, the worst other thing to me made, made me think about what a straight sized person says to me. You're so confident. Where do you, your confidence from you. Right? And I'm always like, what does that, what, what does that mean? I exist?

[00:41:48] What do you want from me? Oh my gosh. Okay. Queen C. So what does it mean to you to take up space and how can a person get. Okay. So I think to me, taking [00:42:00] up space means the freedom to be yourself and the freedom to be who you are in space. So I'm really loud, like really loud,

[00:42:19] and um, You know, this, this space that we have created is one of the only spaces where I feel comfortable enough to do that. Mm-hmm. . And I feel comfortable enough to be myself and I can take up that space in this way. It just happens to be with my voice. Um, and you know, how people can get started, I think is, you know, just a reflection of what these guys have said.

[00:42:46] Find your people, you know, find the people that you feel comfortable opening up to and, and being that person that you are, you know, and, and, yeah, [00:43:00] wearing the belly shirts and like, I, I never in my life would've taken my shirt off and just like had a sports bra on. Until I met these two and now, you know, when we're doing content and stuff, we're like, you know, like it's, it's totally fine.

[00:43:16] And like, you know, it's, um, It's, it's really that freedom to completely lay yourself bare and be who you are. Yes. I love that. Did I tell you this story already when we first talked? If, if, if I did. Pretend you're hearing it for the first time, , but I went to the beach this summer and I was wearing jean shorts and a black t-shirt and I wasn't thinking it was like a high collared black T-shirt.

[00:43:46] And we're sitting in the direct sun with my, my friends and I am like so sweating. I am so hot in this shirt. And even one of my friends was like, are you, are you okay? I was like, I'm really hot. And I'm like, [00:44:00] I'm wearing a sports bra. Could I take off my shirt? You know? Right. Like cannot do, do I dare. And so, yeah, I took off my shirt and sat there in my shorts and sports bra.

[00:44:13] I'm like, people in smaller bodies, but like this would not be a thing. And like, Holy crap. Have I come a long way? Says, Hey friend, I'm gonna tuck my shirt in to like, I am sitting here with my sports bond, G shorts in public in Vancouver at the beach. Like it was the most liberating freaking thing. Oh my God.

[00:44:34] Yeah. Yeah. Amazing. Hell yeah. Okay, so spoiler alert, as of recording this, I know it's not quite here yet, but I know what's coming for Fierce and Kirby Empire, and I'm so excited. Tell us what's coming . Oh, geez, I'm in the middle. It's me, . Um, uh, we are officially launching the Virtual Empire, so what that means is it's going to be a subscription based [00:45:00] program where you get exclusive access to our online library of.

[00:45:05] Filmed dance classes. So you'll be run through an entire routine. A combo is what we call them, where you can learn the dance. There'll be warmup videos, there'll be cool downs. We're working on a couple of other little things. You'll also have access to a community. We're actually starting like a private group where when you join the empire, you actually get to be a part of it, um, and have access to us.

[00:45:24] So it's not just like a, Hey, you bought our thing, see you later. It's like, this is our community, which is what we're really excited. . Um, and it's just a way for us to connect with more people all over the world, cuz that's really been like, the biggest thing that we've been hearing is since we leaned into TikTok, like we're at 30,000 followers, which is wild.

[00:45:44] Um, but everyone is like, when are you gonna come to my city? Where are, where can I join? Or like, when are you going on tour? And like, as much as Yes, please flies to your city if you have the money. Hire hus please. But as much as we wanna do that, we know that that's not accessible for everybody. And so this was like [00:46:00] our kind of way to like bridge the gap, make the connections, and provide a community that's far bigger than just our small little Alberta hub that we have here.

[00:46:09] Yes. Super exciting. Well, and like, so I've been a part now for, since, I guess since last, since the summer, I've been a part of a plus size fitness community and like I cannot wait to join yours. Like it is completely life-changing when you are a part of a plus size fitness, dance, sports, whatever, community, it's complete.

[00:46:32] And, and sorry, now hang on. Cause now I'm, it's not just plus size or is it only plus size? Like are. It's not right, like it's anybody. It's any all shapes and sizes. Um, we also, like if you're curvy in spirit and you're not actually plus size, then that's what we call it then join us. Um, no one's turned away

[00:46:49] Yeah. We, we just know that like not everybody, um, who needs a safe space is gonna look like us. And you know, like we understand that like we provide a space that is very different [00:47:00] than a regular class. Yeah. Um, and so we. , massive variety in our students. It's not all one shape, one size. It's very much If you feel like you need a safe space and you want to dance with us, yeah.

[00:47:11] Then come dance with us. Um, it's not just, I mean, obviously we've created this space for plus size bodies, but at the same time, we wanna be inclusive. So, yeah. I love that. And, and there's, it's a, it's a different vibe. It's a different vibe and it's different conversations, right? Yeah. When you have people who, you know, like.

[00:47:30] Anybody that's in a, at an intersection of multiple marginalized identities knows, like for me, when I'm in queer spaces or non-binary spaces, or tra like, you know, like it's a, you know, even like neuro divergent spaces, like you speak the same language, right? Mm-hmm. a hundred percent. And so you've got that, that safety and that and that knowing.

[00:47:49] Right? Yeah. When you say you're so brave, you're not cringing. maybe, like, I think that's the knee jerk reaction is the cringe, but then you're like, okay, take a step back. [00:48:00] What does that actually mean? Have some introspection. Okay. , when it's coming from a place of. Right. That, that, you know, yes. There, there's the initial cringe, and then there's the step back and the, okay, you know, this, this person is coming at this from a place of love.

[00:48:15] That's, you know, we, we all, we need to, to take that step back sometimes. Yeah. Yeah. Oh my God, I love it. Friends. Oh my gosh, this has been brilliant. Thank you so much for hanging out with me today. Any final thoughts before we wrap it up for listen? Thank you so much for, for having us here. We had so much fun.

[00:48:33] And for your listeners, I'm just gonna give you the message that we give every single one of our students at the end of our classes. Make sure that you drink the water, make sure that you do the stretching. Make sure that you get the sleep. Make sure that you fill your cup with whatever it is that brings you joy.

[00:48:49] Be it the coffee, the tea, the water, , whatever it is, whatever that makes you happy because life is short. Make sure you do it and shine your crown because this world is so much better because it has you in [00:49:00] it. Yes. Oh. Yes. Oh my gosh. Friends, listeners, you will find Fierce and Curvy Empire wherever you get your social media fix, fierce and Curvy Empire.

[00:49:12] Uh, your website is fierce and curvy empire.com, and all of this will be in the show notes, 

[00:49:16] so head on over and click all the links and read the bios and get to know these three magnificent queens. Thank you so much for being here today. This has been an absolute delight. Thank you. Thank you. Now Dawn and Slay.

[00:49:29] Yes. Slay. Slay, , .

[00:49:32] Thank you so much for listening. Visit fantastical fatty.com/podcast to connect with our guests and access all the resources we share today. Follow us on TikTok and Instagram at @fantasticalfatty.

[00:49:44] You can catch the video version of this podcast over on YouTube. Just search Fantastical Fatty

[00:49:49] please share the fat love with your besties and send them a link to today's show if you think they're gonna love it. Don't forget to follow us on your fave podcast platform and give us a rating and review so [00:50:00] the algorithm loves us back And most importantly, stay fat and fantastic fatties. Love ya.